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Author Topic: Stress Marks  (Read 471 times)
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MrsHarris219
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« on: July 24, 2011, 11:21:23 AM »

Hi folks. I'm new the the BD community and need advice. My bearded dragon is about 6-8 months old and I got him yesterday. Perhaps foolishly I bought him from a PETCO out here, but watching him and the others for a while, he seemed very healthy. He was perky, head up, and EXTREMELY active. He ran up and down the cage following myself and my husband.
I have him in an aquarium in the bedroom where there is little foot traffic. He has a 100wt basking light that gets to about 100 on his rock, his cool side is about 80-85 degrees. I have calci-sand substrate for him as well as a small plant to climb and a shallow pool for him.
Yesterday he was doing fine after we brought him home late afternoon. We held him a couple times, he was basking most of the day, still fairly active- trying to climb up the aquarium wall, got into his pool 3-4 times, but I didn't see him eat anything. The lady suggested holding off to give him crickets since he's likely to be stressed from the move so I gave him mealworms and a fortified pellet food for beardies. After I turned his basking light off that evening he got into some weird sleeping position with his throat up against the glass and stayed like that all evening. I got up this morning and he was still like that and I noticed that he had the dark spotish marks all down his beard and belly. I know that those are stress marks so I turned the light on and gave him some romaine lettuce, apple, banana, wax worms and those pellets. He seems uninterested in any of it though and still very dark. He had a good poop this morning though, so that made me a little happy.
I'm a paranoid "mom" with all my animals and maybe it's just from the stress of a new home, but I want to make sure I'm doing everything to make him as least stressed as possible. Please give me your advice. Thank you!
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« on: July 24, 2011, 11:21:23 AM »

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perfectly_flawed
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 12:31:06 PM »

I hate to tell you this, but chain petstores are the single worst place to get advice for animals. You're going to have to make some changes for your babies. My first concern is how long, tip to tip, is this baby? It's unusual for them to sell babies that are past the hatchling stage - most they sell are only a couple weeks old and are absolutely tiny - much too young to be sold.
What type of thermometer did they sell you? You need a digital thermometer with a probe or a temp gun for an accurate basking surface temp. Those stick on strips and dials that most petstores talk new owners into are pretty much worthless. Once you have a good thermometer, measure the temp of the basking surface. That temp needs to be between 110* and 120*F.
The calcisand is very unsanitary and very dangerous to your baby. When wet, including in the dragons intestines, it becomes hard clumps that are similar to concrete. It causes nasty blockages that often lead to death. This forum, and most others, recommend nonparticle substrates - especially for new owners and young dragons. Textured ceramic tiles, nonadhesive shelf liner, reptile carpet, paper towels, and newspaper all make safe substrates.
The pool isn't needed. Most dragons won't drink standing water and the bacteria and humidity from the water in their enclosure can cause health problems. Most of us just soak our dragons for 15 minutes every couple of days. They absorb water through the vent (butt), so they're well hydrated with frequent soaking.
Please don't give him mealworms. They're very fatty, low in nutrition, high in phosphorus (binds calcium), and hard to digest. Stick with crickets, feeder roaches, silkworms, hornworms, or phoenix worms for your baby. Most experienced keepers also avoid the pellet foods or anything that comes pre-made. Those foods tend to be full of preservatives and things that aren't healthy for our babies. All insects should be removed from his enclosure after 15 minutes.
His salad needs some changing. The foods shown in green on this chart will make the healthiest foods. The ones in black are good for an occasional treat. Treats should be given in small amounts no more than once or twice a week. http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html
You didn't mention a UVB light. Do you have one? What brand, rating, and bulb style (florescent tube, coil) is it?
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MrsHarris219
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2011, 12:16:04 PM »

First of all-- Thank you for replying!!

Second-- I just wrote up a whole post to this and my session timed out, of course.

The PETCO I went to get him from seems to be a little bit better/ more caring towards their animals than most of their other stores. The first one I went to most of their lizards were so small [as young as a month old] and even the large ones were lethargic and not even basking.. At least at the one I went to they had a large tank that had even fewer lizards in it than the one at the other store [which was at least a 1/4 the size of that tank]. Toothless [as my husband named him] is probably a good 8-9inches from nose to tail. I wanted to get a larger one in hopes that he would adjust better and the stress of moving wouldn't be as harsh.
I have a themometer that has a clock-like hand. But I'll go to the store after work and look for the digital one. Any particular brand I should look for?
I remember seeing that reptile carpet. I'll be sure to get some of that too. I've read so much good and bad on that calcisand, but I'd rather not take the risk.
I took the pool out this morning. I had to change it out throughout the day cause he would get so much of the sand in it. Should I get him a plastic tub to bathe in? Should it be big enough to swim in or do they even enjoy swimming? And with all that should I start spraying him? If so how often would you suggest?
No mealworms, got it.  With crickets, do you breed your own? If so, is it a pain to do so?
Thanks for that site! There's quite a bit on there that I wouldn't expect. I appreciate it.
I do. I don't remember what the kind. What is your recommendation for that though and I'll look at it when I get home, put another on the shopping list if I need to. [Golly, those chicks were really of no help to me!]

Once again, I appreciate you helping me with all of this. I really want to be a good 'mom' to my little dragon.
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perfectly_flawed
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2011, 02:15:37 PM »

8 to 9 inches is usually a 2 to 3 month old baby, if he's had proper care.
Go to Walmart or a similar store for a good digital thermometer with a probe. I have Acurite brand from Walmart and it's excellent. Look for it in the hardware section and expect to pay about $12.
My favorite thing to line their enclosures with is nonadhesive shelf liner. You can find it at Walmart, too. It's about $5 a roll and can be washed in the machine and air dried. Look for the cushiony type that has no adhesive on it, and a smooth or slightly textured surface.
I buy my crickets in bulk and raise roaches for my guys. There are many cricket suppliers out there that are less than $20 per 1000. The best one for you will depend on what part of the country you're in.
For a UVB light, the reptiSUN 10 tube is the best one available right now. Avoid any compacts/coils, and I wouldn't personally trust any other brand.

Do you have a calcium and a vitamin supplement? What brands?
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MrsHarris219
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2011, 03:10:33 PM »

Wow. They were either way off on his age or he's super small. I'm hoping that they were way off.
Alright that's not bad and I have a walmart close by.
That's a clever idea! I have some of that lying around the house anyway and I didn't use cause it wasn't adhesive. Perfect.
I'm currently in Southern California. I found a reptile shop not too far from my house.
Good to know! I'll check what I have. Why not the compacts/coils out of curiousity?
I don't since I had gotten that calcisand. What should I get?

Also too, meant to mention this in my post before. I took him out and let him run around for a bit yesterday and almost instantly the dark marks went away. Could it be that he was frustrated/moody and that's why he had the dark marks? Since then the marks haven't come back. And I think he ate a cricket last night [couldn't find it when I fished the other couple out].
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perfectly_flawed
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Crystal


« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2011, 04:35:09 PM »

The marks aren't always a stress indicator, but more a mood or temp indicator. Sometimes they just want out to play and they'll have belly marks. Some dragons have them all the time, they never go away. As you get to know your dragon you'll learn what they mean with him.
For supplements, I prefer the repcal brand for both calcium and vitamins. Calcium should be given on one meal each day, 6 days a week. On the day you don't use calcium, use a multivitamin on one meal.
The coil/compact UVB lights have been known to lose their UVB output very quickly, leaving the dragon with inadequate UVB rays. They're also known for causing burns to the dragons eyes. The reptisun 10 tube has been around for a long time now and has proven itself to be an excellent bulb. It will need to be placed so that the dragon is about 6" from it while basking and should span at least 3/4 of the length of the enclosure. Florescent UVB lights need to be switched out every 6 months to make sure the dragon always has adequate exposure.
I wouldn't look at reptile shops for your crickets. They're usually pretty spendy. Cali isn't too far out from Washington - I recommend Reeves Cricket Ranch. Their site's been down for a while, but I can provide you with their phone number if you'd like. I use them - they're only a 10 minute drive for me - and I've never had any issues with them at all.
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zebrajanie
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 05:59:10 AM »

An other alternative for a staple insect would be Dubia Roaches.. Most folks have a difficult time with these, just because they are in the roach family.

If you would care to check those out, www.aaronpauling.com... He's in Arizona.. I've dealt with him in the past, and was not disappointed.

Hope this helps.
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MrsHarris219
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 09:33:25 AM »

Interesting!! I know he gets darker when he is basking [I read that's for better heat absorbtion?] and he's always got little light colored pattern on his underside. I think he's super cute. My husband doesn't get it. When I figure out how to resize pictures, I'll post some of him. lol
Ok! Will do.
That's good to know so I don't end up wasting money all the time. That'd be great if you could give me their number!

On another note Toothless is doing better and has quite the appetite. He's eaten all of the crickets I got him. It's fun watching him go after them. He's been pooping regularly too which makes me happy.
I read too that they should be eating about 10-30 crickets a day... seems like a big difference? Does that sound right? Yesterday and this morning I was putting only 2-3 in with him at a time in case it was overwhelming [since he just started eating].

Jane: Not sure if I could ever do roaches. I've got a terrible phobia of them [it's the only bug that really scares me]. Lol! It's aweful. Maybe when my husband's home again. [We're in the military and he's deploying].
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perfectly_flawed
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Crystal


« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 01:07:24 PM »

Reeves is 360-966-3300 - talk to Trish. She's great.

I've had some little ones eat only 10 or so a day, others over 100 a day. The general rule is to let them have as many as they want in 15 minutes two or three times a day. He'll eat what he needs. Make sure all of his crickets are smaller than the space between his eyes, and remove any that he hasn't eaten after 15 minutes. If they're still chowing down I usually wait a little longer to remove them, but it's very important to make sure there are no crickets running around in his enclosure when he's done eating. They've been known to chew through the scales of sleeping dragons.
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MrsHarris219
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 02:22:43 PM »

Wow! That's a huge difference!!

Toothless is a PIG! I love it. makes me feel good. I put about 10-15 crickets in there and came back about 20min later and they're all gone! I'm so proud of him. Lol

And thanks for the number! :]

I have a silly question for you.... how do you catch your crickets again? Do you use a net or anything?? They're so fast. I didn't think it'd be as tricky as it is! lol
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