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Author Topic: Live Plants?  (Read 451 times)
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arrow564
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« on: August 29, 2010, 03:20:44 PM »

Hello all!
I have been thinking of putting a live plant or two into Perseus' tank and wanted your opinions on what would be a good idea? I was thinking about Collard Greens. This way he has literally 24/7 access to veggies, a place to hide and it looks good!
I am looking for something easy to care for, does not grow too big and, above all else, is highly nutritious.
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1 Bearded Dragon: Perseus
2 Box Turtles: JB and Lady Greymoon
1 Red-foot Tortoise: Maksutov
1 Cat: Milo
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« on: August 29, 2010, 03:20:44 PM »

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perfectly_flawed
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Crystal


« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 04:21:44 PM »

Personally I don't care for the idea of plants of any type in the enclosure. Depending on humidity where you live, they can raise the humidity in the enclosure to unsafe levels. The soil also harbors bacteria that can make your dragon sick. It's a risk I choose to avoid.
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Metal_Gman
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 12:29:44 AM »

Hello all!
I have been thinking of putting a live plant or two into Perseus' tank and wanted your opinions on what would be a good idea? I was thinking about Collard Greens. This way he has literally 24/7 access to veggies, a place to hide and it looks good!
I am looking for something easy to care for, does not grow too big and, above all else, is highly nutritious.

Arrow, check this video out; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hCDStfclIc.

Although what perfectly_flawed says is true, soil does contain microbes/bacteria etc. So does the bearded dragons natural environment. If one is really concerned about that, you can always place black pebbles in the top of the pot and keep the bottom it clean. Personally I don't see anything majorly risky about it.

If you do decide to, I wouldn't suggest collard greens simply because they will wilt under the heat of the VIV. Mustard greens, whether standard or Giant red mustard greens, stand up to the heat really quite well and don't need a huge amount of water/a saucer. Just dampen the soil with I dunno say 75ml of water at night, the plant will survive aok. But there's one other thing, the plant won't grow as fast as your beardy eats it. I rotate 8 plants in/out of the VIV during the week, my two beardied are enthusiastic grazers  Roll Eyes Grin

If you really want to you could probably consult a qualified horticulturalist to advise on safe soils to use and grow your own from organic seed. I'm quite sure its possible to have soil irradiated for the purposes of killing bacteria or something along those lines.
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arrow564
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 08:34:47 AM »

Thanks for the advice! What do you think about weatgrass, i heard that it was very nutritious as well.
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1 Bearded Dragon: Perseus
2 Box Turtles: JB and Lady Greymoon
1 Red-foot Tortoise: Maksutov
1 Cat: Milo
zebrajanie
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 08:43:42 AM »

Nope.
You can do collards, mustards, endive, turnip greens... Something you can remove.. say in a pot..
Hope this helps.
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perfectly_flawed
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 01:15:33 PM »

Although what perfectly_flawed says is true, soil does contain microbes/bacteria etc. So does the bearded dragons natural environment.

What's in their natural environment doesn't really apply to our captive dragons. They're so many generations out of the wild that they'd never survive in that setting. In the wild they're also able to get away from areas that would be unhealthy to them, and their lifespan is only a fraction of our captive dragons.
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beardielover17
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I'm Candice


« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 02:24:19 PM »

Wouldn't creating too clean/sterile of an environment do just as much damage as placing a dragon in a dirty environment? A constantly sterile environment will weaken the immune system IMO. I personally don't see too much of an issue of using a good quality organic soil. We have to place gravid females in a much larger quantity of soil for an extended period of time but it doesn't compromise her health in any way. A little potted plant with the soil covered by large stones I would imagine would do next to nothing in terms of health. Maybe humidity though depending on the setup.
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Red Ink AUS
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 05:57:07 PM »

Mate, from personal experience I have done the live plant thing (native plants).
Here are my observations of it:

1. I have found it to be more trouble than it's worth.

2. I used native succulents endemic to dragon territory, they did not survive in the induced tank micro environment. In order for me to allow for the plants to survive long periods. It would have compromised the micro climate of the tank. I won't go into details with this as it's just the regular questions of humidity and lighting requirements of the flora Vs. the fauna in the environment.

3. The dragons kept eating them, I know that's the idea but what I have seen is that they have shown a disinterest in the other plant matter given as food.

4. As they would only keep eating the plants I have found that it was not cost effective. I needed to keep changing the plants as they got decimated. They are more expensive "alive" than as a bunch from the supermarket.

5. Feeder insects kept hiding in them and eating them, it made it hard for the dragon to find all the insects. Being I was feeding large crickets to the dragon I have also observed female crickets depositing eggs in the soil in the pots. This resulted in a nymph infestation.

So in summary from personal experience I have found live plants to be more work. Even though the plants I placed in there where native surprisingly enough the environment that would make a dragon thrive would kill the plant and vice versa. If the reasons for wanting plants in there is purely aesthetic then I would consider just using fake plants (much easier). If you would like to give it a go please do, this have been my personal experience with this matter and yours could be different. If you do find that it works for you please record the data and share the information in the forum for others to try if they wish.

Cheers,
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Metal_Gman
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 08:53:52 PM »

Mate, from personal experience I have done the live plant thing (native plants).
Here are my observations of it:

1. I have found it to be more trouble than it's worth.

2. I used native succulents endemic to dragon territory, they did not survive in the induced tank micro environment. In order for me to allow for the plants to survive long periods. It would have compromised the micro climate of the tank. I won't go into details with this as it's just the regular questions of humidity and lighting requirements of the flora Vs. the fauna in the environment.

3. The dragons kept eating them, I know that's the idea but what I have seen is that they have shown a disinterest in the other plant matter given as food.

4. As they would only keep eating the plants I have found that it was not cost effective. I needed to keep changing the plants as they got decimated. They are more expensive "alive" than as a bunch from the supermarket.

5. Feeder insects kept hiding in them and eating them, it made it hard for the dragon to find all the insects. Being I was feeding large crickets to the dragon I have also observed female crickets depositing eggs in the soil in the pots. This resulted in a nymph infestation.

So in summary from personal experience I have found live plants to be more work. Even though the plants I placed in there where native surprisingly enough the environment that would make a dragon thrive would kill the plant and vice versa. If the reasons for wanting plants in there is purely aesthetic then I would consider just using fake plants (much easier). If you would like to give it a go please do, this have been my personal experience with this matter and yours could be different. If you do find that it works for you please record the data and share the information in the forum for others to try if they wish.

Cheers,

Red ink,

1. Sure I know what you mean re; feeder insects hiding all over the place, but personally I don't feed my dragons inside their VIV. Too much damn trouble, crickets hide under rocks, in the dragons hidy huts n whatnot and come out at night trying to nip the dragons. Generally a bad idea to try feeding feeder insects inside the VIV in my short experience.

2. Regarding the plants themselves, they CAN become expensive depending on what you use. Myself, I grow my own from seed and rotate a fair amount of them and such as this the dragons don't get a chance to decimate a single plant. And since mustard green seeds cost about $4/300 seeds, it actually works out mighty cheap. I ensure I use a decent variety so they don't get stuck on one variety. I haven't found them disinterested in any food as yet, they'll basically try and eat anything green put in their VIV. Or anything that moves.

3. As for the fake plants, generally dangerous i've found. Dragons try and eat the fake plant, and no matter what kind of fake plant you buy, a dragon ingesting any kind of plastic/fabric would generally be dangerous.
If its for aesthetic purposes, a fake plant background of the tiled kind is best since they can't eat it.

4. And probably the BEST thing i've encountered since offering them greens 24/7, their poo doesn't reek anymore. Their BMs are spot on, very very regular (bout 10am every single morning, and within about 30s of a warm bath) so it would seem its doing wonders for their digestive system.

5. Another thing i've noted, giving the plant a light spray in the morning simulating dew I caught Raphy licking off the drops of water. Perhaps what they do naturally in the wild?

6. Lastly, the point isn't to try and cater to the plants survival and growth in the VIV itself. That'd be to the absolute detriment of the Dragons. IF one really DID want to cater to both though, I certainly wouldn't think it hard. A proper grow light putting out correct UV is about $80. BUT again, not the point and not the goal. The mature plants are put in the VIV for the dragons to eat, within about 48-72 hours the plant has been grazed on enough that it has to be removed and left for approx 1-2 weeks to grow again. Hence the need for multiple plants to rotate.

I suppose at the end of it, what works for one person may not for another, everybody has a different style and as yet there really is not accepted best practice. Other than for basics such as housing size/UVB/general food/general health.

Everything else is a bit wishy washy, no real data present to support one method over another.
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Red Ink AUS
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 09:43:55 PM »

Thanks for that Metal

This is the kind of info that others would surely benefit from.
Just some Qs:

Did you find that the addition of live plants increase the humidity drastically or due to the cycle rotation you had them on it had no effect? What where the humidity readings?

How often where you placing the tubs in there and what dept was the soil in the pots?

Where the pots in there constantly, as in one after the other or did you have them in intervals?
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